Sunday, January 08, 2006

We Were Getting Too Close For Comfort-Unorthodoxjew.blogspot.com Is Now Plural-Unorthodoxjews.blogspot.com

Fellow Un-Orthodox Jews.

The perverts and the perverters of our Torah are feeling the heat; our original web address was hacked.

Please e-mail & contact everyone you know who has been reading us, of our new address.

This should embolden all of us to continue in our important work.

41 comments:

Anonymous said...

That's a real good sign!

Acher said...

Well UOJ it seems they have heard your exhortion to the Kollel shlumpers to get learn some skills. So they go and learn how to hack to upset your site since you threaten their livelyhood of Schnorrkeit.

Searchingsince83 said...

This is a very infromative and cynical site that not only provides entertainement but actually addresses real issues with the intent on doing something about it Yasher Koch'cha.

Searchingsince83 said...

The Ba'al teshuva article was much appreciated by me. I to experienced such issue in my qausi Ba'al teshuva Yeshiva. A guidance cousilor (i.e. someone who was a frum commited and knowledgable yid with good advice into how to find my niche and how to make it work as a Jew was much lacking.) the best I got was one of my Rebbeim read through an employment catalog from 1990 (I wasn't even in highschool yet) which was totally uninfromative to my personnel quest. Although I do grant much credit for the encouragement to work and stuff but there was no good solid guidance!

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Searching,
The article you are referring to was written by a real savvy BT, David Kelsey.

Searchingsince83 said...

so the darchei bina thing, I have a sister looking into sem and that really scares me! are there any places you would endorse?

gross said...

Advice for your sister:

I wouldn't endorse any. I would stay away from the "intense" and "difficult" programs. They make the girls nuts. Also, stick w/ a seminary that has women in significant roles in administration. The more "modern" ones are bst - forget about how you "look" to your friends. Avoid heart-to-heart talks with any male Rebbi, teacher or administrator. The guys who run seminaries may have long beards but they are FAR from Rosh Yeshivas - they are simply BUSINESSMEN. Make sure not to get carried away with how much the Rabbi "cares" about the girls. NEVER have a conversation with a Rabbi behind closed doors of his office or anywhere (besides, it is a direct violation of halacha - tell it to him if you must and he'll get the message loud and clear)

Stick with a group of friends who are honest with each other and trustworthy - stay away from the backstabbers and the girls who study 24/7 - their brainwashed and much of what you learn will be meaningless moments after you arrive back home.

Most importantly, stay safe and have a blast - the fun times are all you'll remember (hopefully)

Best Wishes!

Anonymous said...

gross,

I have to say that was one of your stupidist comments I have heard. Whats wrong with a intense learning program? Why are more modern ones better, I am considered modern, and you dont learn as much. You obviously are part of this minority that had a bad situation within the yeshiva/seminary world.

You can have a blast in all the seminaries you go to. Each one has great teachers, modern or not modern. They all have great teachers, great trips and a great learning experience.

Please dont stick your bad experience and negative ideas on someone else, who might have a real open mind, and enjoy living a jewish religous life.

gross said...

I put "modern" in quotes for a reason. In the "seminary world" there are great institutions with great learning programs that provide a wonderful experience for the girls. I think a seminary-age girl understands what "intense" means. Generally they are the ones that work the girls to the bone while micro-managing every thought and aspect of their lives ad nauseum, as if the girls are still in their fanatic high schools.

Searchingsince83 said...

Yeah i do think you (Gross) are getting a little overly paranoid about the learning and they're all evil aproach. I mean it's just to blanket a statement to be true!

Anonymous said...

Any of you people have daughters looking into seminaries? Gross is understating the problem. Many of the right wing seminaries are run by unqualified fellows with hopefully only money on their minds. The “feeder” schools are no better.

Parents need to remove their heads from their asses and think as parents. Check these places out carefully and if something feels wrong trust yourself, not the moronic principal in your daughter's school.

Anonymous said...

what is the "darchei bina" thing and where is this article?

Searchingsince83 said...

How do you know that that is the case, everyone has money on there minds? For instance Rabbi Laufer of Darchei Bina(I just looked at their site) was weel off before he even became a Rabbi. I don't argue that there are problems but these seem to be irrational and unqaulified claims. Can some one give a more scholarly exposition of the issues? What makes them unqaulified? What percentage fall under what category?
This site raises valid issues but does not back it up. There are some major Base-rate-Falacies going on here just because you even had three incidents doesn't meen a hundred other cases are like that!

Searchingsince83 said...

How do you know that that is the case, everyone has money on there minds? For instance Rabbi Laufer of Darchei Bina(I just looked at their site) was weel off before he even became a Rabbi. I don't argue that there are problems but these seem to be irrational and unqaulified claims. Can some one give a more scholarly exposition of the issues? What makes them unqaulified? What percentage fall under what category?
This site raises valid issues but does not back it up. There are some major Base-rate-Falacies going on here just because you even had three incidents doesn't meen a hundred other cases are like that!

Searchingsince83 said...

How do you know that that is the case, everyone has money on there minds? For instance Rabbi Laufer of Darchei Bina(I just looked at their site) was weel off before he even became a Rabbi. I don't argue that there are problems but these seem to be irrational and unqaulified claims. Can some one give a more scholarly exposition of the issues? What makes them unqaulified? What percentage fall under what category?
This site raises valid issues but does not back it up. There are some major Base-rate-Falacies going on here just because you even had three incidents doesn't meen a hundred other cases are like that!

Searchingsince83 said...

sorry bout the triple header there must be a glitch

gross said...

"For instance Rabbi Laufer of Darchei Bina(I just looked at their site) was weel off before he even became a Rabbi"

Please read that statement once again - it's far from an argument. I will let that slide.

Nobody is arguing whether or not "money is on their minds." That is obvious and barely the issue. Do you think they're starting seminaries to spread Torah? You've got to be kidding!

Anonymous said...

please share these three incidents with us

Searchingsince83 said...

I mistyped the above statement. I'm starting from a new perspective I don't know sqaut but am trying to learn about what is right and what is wrong about our Ortho system. Yes indeed I assumed their is a positive purpose to sem. (perhaps a continuing education for women parralel to the guys do to the need for such intellectual challenge) I honestly don't even know what is learnt in seminary. So please inform to me what is taught and why it is unnecessary and is there an alternative Idea for starters?

If everyone doesn't I will be spending along time asking what seem to be pashuta questions in your minds.

Boog said...

UO;

I hope you have some safeguards in place so that you don't get hacked again.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Hey Boog,

I was getting concerned that you wouldn't find us. Mr. Pasik was commenting on your sense of humor.

Things are moving along quite well, get the Jewish Press, Mr. Pasik has a piece that you want to read.

Hackers, hockers...we're here to stay.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Boog,

Can you believe Zweibel's internal memo??

Boog said...

Just found you 1/2 hour ago. Was wondering what happened to you and the blog and became worried that maybe the satumarees found you and were playing stickball with your kneecaps. B"H, that's not the case.

I have tremendous respect for Mr. Pasik for playing point guard on this very important issue. Mr. Pasik; Play it the way Larry Brown would want you to: Attack, Attack, Attack.

UO: Chazak!

Off to get the J.P. Arnold...you'll have to take a back-seat to Mr. Pasik this week. A Bi Gezunt and A Bi Mer Leibt!

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Those Satmers and others are looking for me..I aint going nowhere.
I feel like I'm running a garbage company, after each blog (trip to the dump), I need a shower.

Boog said...

Showers are good, just don't become like Howard Hughes!

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

It just feels like I'm knee-deep in s***.
Anyway, progress is slow and painful, honestly the s*** will soon hit the fan!

Anonymous said...

wont buy that disgusting rag. what does the piece say?

shmuel said...

Is this the letter you speak of? http://www.jewishpress.com/page.do/5766/Resolving_The_Yeshiva_Tuition_Crisis.html

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Shmuel,

Yes, What do you think?

Anonymous said...

Another organization?!?

Does Mr. pasik understand that those of us who are able are giving far more than 10% of our income?

We need FEWER organizations, more people in the work force, more reasonable birth control rulings by our rabbis and a refocus of values.

Tuition in Brooklyn schools are not that unreasonable. More than Catholic schools, far less than private schools.

shmuel said...

I don't think that the tuition crisis has any possible solutions. Wealthy people, who believe in tzedaka, are giving a lot of money all the time. Of course those mega gifts are smaller by the frum. After all, even the rich guys have a lot of kids to give their money to.
I think that the only real answer, would be to have much better financial planning at the schools. If there were an organization that could force the schools to insure the lives of their large donors, for example, which is how the Mormons actually started their financial freedom, then we could decrease tuition, without an infussion of new money, which is a pipe dream. (sorry about the run-on)

boog said...

Do you or anyone have any idea if money coming into yeshivas is spent correctly and wisely? Is there any accountability?

Is there a SEC in the yeshiva world that makes sure there is no waste?

Answer is a resounding NO.

You have no idea if your donation is being spent correctly.

Anonymous said...

true, unless you are willing to spend the time helping the yeshiva spend wisely. not all of the waste is due to theft, much is simply due to poor management. by all means give charity, then do more and help the charity of your choice manage its money better.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

The family run yeshivas are stealing big time. What planet are you living on?

boog said...

anon;

That's assuming they'll let you see their books.

That is ass-uming quite alot.

Lakewood cries financial distress but sees no problem in putting together a mega-lavish Chinese Auction.

They scored a financhial windfall on land they re-sold to the lakewoood township and on which a baseball field and hockey rink will be built. Of course these will be off-limits to the Toshvei Ha'ir under penalty of ex-communication and inability to do shidduchim with the children.

This town is beginning to look like Jim Jones/Guyana. No doubt the Kool-Aid has a reliable hechsher.

boog said...

So the question is very simple:

Why do the lakewood Leaders (Kotlers) put their flock in potential harm's way by inviting these "destructive" influences into their midst?

And Lipa Shmelzer, the answer is:

GELT, GELT, GELT!!

The most beautiful 4-letter word in the henglish language.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Anon,
Lakewood has 14 corporate entities and 17 sets of books. Do you think the Kotler boys are making a living?

boog said...

Yu vant to know if they is making ah living?

I vish I vas ah pahtner.

Anonymous said...

not all yeshivas are family businesses. i can out rave either of you vis a vis lakewood. my point is that there are organizations that are mismanaged by well meaning inexperienced people. they can use our help.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

C'mon Anon,
They don't want your help, they want your money.
That's how they get in your front door, asking you for an "eitza"; they want your eitza like they want cancer.

Anonymous said...

in general, yes. while i do give some sucker charity, any serious money comes together with my involvement.

i learned the hard way.